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Chad Albin's avatar

Not sure what to make of the beautiful dream but it is interesting for me because the dream oozes with hope. That’s not common in my dream world. also she has the dream on good Friday. Not sure what that means but it’s surely something. As far as YouTube and the teaming and potent units of attention at play go, substack seams the best medium for respite from the attention machine. Thanks for writing.

Emily Hermann's avatar

Not rushing to interpret dreams, I think, it’s the correct instinct. They need to linger and to be with us for some time in order to live, to mature, to be ripe. This approach allows for circumambulation and amplifying the dream rather than immediately identifying what part of the dream corresponds to what in real life. Dreams are a language not propaganda.

The dreamer’s life context and his or her associations to the dream are very important. Dreams speak from and to those.

Whose dream is it? Is a dream about me mine? Or is it about the person who dreamt it?

In this case, as I see it, you were gifted this dream and you stepped in it, carefully and thoughtfully and you are honouring it. Just like one would do in an active imagination. And I think this is key in understanding the dream and different aspects of it. We are in the territory of the imaginal. And we need to find ways to speak back to our waking life.

Here I can only offer my associations, limited to my limitations.

The wise old man, the sage imparts little lights even when the power is out. This reminds me of the exact opposite of what is happening in our households, where the fire is gradually replaced with electricity. Just recently I listened to Paul Kingsnorth talking about this. He pointed out that fire is focus in Latin. Hence this replacement is certainly affecting our attention. What is it that we as individuals and as a collective are focused to? What is it that our (family)lives is built around?

The little lights are focal points of some kind. And the spark is not dependent on matter or on the grid. In contrary. When the power goes out the wise old man reassuringly continues to impart light. It seems that this is his mission. The little fires he lights are contained, they have a purpose, they are lit at the right places. Divided becomes more. (Unlike those other fires made by homeless people.)

The little lights point to the breadth and the depth of your work. In no particular order, your youtube channel, the randos phenomena, the many flotillas downstream from that, the estuary movement, your involvement in This Little Corner of the Internet and Living Stones. I think this is evident.

And now let’s focus, pun unintended, on the electric saw, which is, in my view, an odd or a surprising element in the dream. Saw is used to sever something. Something that’s not needed anymore. I don’t know much about saws but an unpowered electric saw will not sever anything. Where does the power to yet have the spark come from? I think the same energy, the willingness to sever what is not needed anymore will be the power to spark those little lights. The source of the power is different.

I enjoyed being with this dream and I thank you for this. I’m watching dreams through a jungian lens. Everything I know about dreams I know from This Jungian Life podcast, where three jungian analysts interpret dreams submitted by listeners at the second part of each episode. The best way, in my opinion, to have our dreams interpreted.

Interesting addition to this dream is one of mine I had on the 16th of March 2022, which somewhat connects to this one.

My dream has a dramatic introduction:

“Sevilla King organised This Little Corner, in a welcoming and pleasant village at the Arctic. I am with her when she’s buying a hearth, for a good price, for when the guests will arrive to be nice and warm. There is another kind of heating too...”

Jack Webster's avatar

Wow! What a fascinating dream! My interpretation: PVK is making disciples (light bearing bowls) through YouTube and even if his YouTube ministry (the electrical saw) diminishes, his disciple making will continue. I don't think this interpretation really differs from PVK's.

However, the more apocalyptically minded part of me from third wave charismaticism makes me wonder when the Internet will go out for all of us (or at least, the ability to spread the Gospel via the Internet). In such a case, we need not fear. We will continue to make disciples until he returns, because the power for the electrical saw was really from the Holy Spirit. Now that I write it out, my broader interpretation for the rest of us seems more wacky, but who knows? The internet cannot go on forever. It seems inimical to human reproduction.

Everett Vroon's avatar

I don't know what the dream means, but God has given me a glimpse of what it means for me. My pastor and friend recommended I look at your podcast prior to attending the Multiply conference last November in Florida. I did so and have been watching and commenting since that time. Somehow through that I was given a bowl of light, through you, to share with others. I have a new passion for His word and a desire to share that light with others in my community through preaching and my clinical work and getting involved with estuary. This gift of finding you and the TLC reminds me of AA's gaunt prospector: "Father feels he has struck something better than gold. For a while he may try to hug the new treasure to himself. He may not see at once that he has barely scratched a limitless lode which will pay dividends only if he mines it for the rest of his life and insists on giving away the entire product." AA p.129

I've been learning from VanDonk and waiting for the Lord of light to show me the next right action.

ken saucke's avatar

I had hoped to come to the estuary you had in Olympia 2 years ago but didn't. I did wind up joining O lympia CRC, so thanks for that. I am still curious about estuary but can't give a lot of time to yuotube.

Zac Parsons's avatar

Plenty to weigh in on here. I feel like YouTube is trying to position itself to not be left behind by Reels and TikToks. But I don't really see Reels or TikToks eating YouTube's lunch with the longer form stuff.

As far as YouTube as a platform for monetization, I don't have as clear of a read on that. I use mine as more of a creative outlet than anything. Are you interpreting the dream in light of the lower potential for monetization and that Living Stones might need to evolve into something more part-time?

Part of your influence and authority does stem from your current "pastoral" position, even if it's drawn from decades of experience as a pastor. I'd be curious to see how your YouTube participation might change if your pastoral position changed in a material way.

Anyway, just my thoughts!

Hope they land well.

Paul Vanderklay's avatar

Yes, Others in the YouTube comments talked about Living Stones being the electricity. I hadn’t thought of that. That is an interesting possibility too.

Teri Murphy's avatar

Zac I think he was referring to the indications that people are beginning to loose interest in Youtube because of AI fakes--not to mention the possibility that we soon may not know which of us on a livestream is real!

Zac Parsons's avatar

It could be. Though my biased experience doesn't have me losing interest in YouTube... it's calling me in more than ever!

Cathy Smith's avatar

Revelation 5:8 is what immediately jumped to my mind when I first watched the video of you and John talking about the dream. Not the "bowls of wrath." LOL. In a metaphorical way, I see you, in your dream, as facilitating the proliferation of prayers and dialogue between earth and heaven. It's missional ... which is how I see the TLC, Estuary. The electrical saw may be "technology," again in a metaphorical sense. It's an interesting topic. I don't pooh-pooh the "woo," although my own dreams can be easily tied to things that have happened or are happening in my own life rather than in the lives of others. Although I would love the Lord to speak more directly to me, usually the prompts are opportunities I wasn't looking for, needs I can fulfill when it seems others can't or are unavailable, or just nudges that won't go away. I pray for your ministry, pvk.

Istvan Joos's avatar

Beloved Paul!

Yes, your flock is much larger than your little church in Sacramento.

I consider myself a member of it in distant Hungary, who had and have the urge to go to your meetings in Western Europe, even the US, to partake in Estuary – in fact I started organizing something very similar for my followers here in Hungary. I have been following you for years now, on and off (the content is way too much for me).

Sacrifice IS the price of the Path we have to take, to multiply our Talents and fulfill our Calling in service of God's will in my experience. Grain sacrifice was not good enough from Cain… (and serial certainly does not seem to be good enough!) … So what are you “meant” to offer up?

Water is emotions. My emotions, other people’s emotions, the flood of attachment to emotions, and considering emotions. ... Frogs may be people I notice, those important to me.

I understand your attachment to homeless people locally, in Sacramento, but maybe the Next Phase is not about them any longer, but us, homeless people all around the world, who do follow Jesus, and are struggling with the present state of Churches & Communities.

Maybe your specific talents are not best utilized by catering to local homeless, maybe you are needed as a Pastor, and even more: a Leader of a Movement, maybe this split focus needs to end. (Opening up the space for sy else to take up the homeless in Sacramento).

Maybe they are the lamb / children you may have to offer up as living sacrifice… instead of just grain / serial / words.

Abram had to leave his old life behind to become Abraham.

And offer up what was most valuable to him.

I applaud your humility in asking your followers to help you. It is in my view exemplary – you are a great Human, in my eyes, Paul, and I thank God for You!

Do work the room. Us.

You CAN do this!!

And maybe keep letting go of judgements like “petty”…

With Love.

Istvan

stevejoos.com

p.s.

I tried contacting to you several times in the past years, about a proven method for helping invidualistic-rational people find God and Turn – “The Prodigal Son’s Journey” personal development method –, and a project called Humania that we could help you with & you could maybe help us in, even work together on. Never got an answer. Hope this message arrives.

Paul Vanderklay's avatar

How are you trying to contact me? Email? I usually look at what gmail judges as “important” rather than the bulk of senseless stuff. What’s your email address? Rod Dreher expressed some interest in starting an Estuary group in Hungary. Maybe there’s enough interest.

Istvan Joos's avatar

It is joos.istvan@gmail.com

Would be an honor to join Rod.

👍🙏

Pseudo Boethius's avatar

This is a fairly easy dream to interpret, and you seem to have it mostly right:

"In the dream there was a large, very white, very loud man using an electrical saw to make wooden bowls filled with light."

Large, VERY WHITE, VERY LOUD man (boy she nailed that one!) --> Well, that's you!

Electric saw --> A symbolic representation of your use of YouTube. You are using it to build TLC and Estuary. Obviously it takes real electricity to use YouTube! The saw itself represents the videos themselves, and the tools you use to make them--computer, software, camera, headphones, microphone, etc. The saw is the symbol of making a YouTube video.

wooden bowls filled with light --> Well, that's us! We are the bowls filled with light! Obviously a bowl is a container for holding things, which is a surprisingly good metaphor for a human being. The light is our goodness, as expressed in good words and good deeds.

Hence, this is just a fancy, symbolic way to express what you are actually doing: using YouTube to build a community of people, filled with the light of God, will take that light and used it to illuminate dark places beyond YouTube.

"“You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its flavor, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled on by people! You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill cannot be hidden. People do not light a lamp and put it under a basket but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before people, so that they can see your good deeds and give honor to your Father in heaven."

- Matthew 5:13-16 NET

"For some reasons (dreams are like that) the electrical saw seemed integral to the process of making these light bearing bowls but then the power went out and the fear was the saw would no longer function and the bowls would no longer be reproduced and distributed. This felt crisis in a dream-like way seemed urgent, urgent enough to provoke her to remember the dream and share it with her mother over the phone."

Yeah, the power is certainly going to go out, no doubt about it. That is a reference about the coming darkness. Amazingly, it's the Catholic mystics and prophets who have been droning on about this on YouTube quite a bit the past few years.

What is the coming darkness? According to the Catholic mystics, it will be the judgement of God on this earth, in the form of at least ten plagues that will happen in rapid succession. There is every reason to believe this will happen within most of our lifetimes. The kicker is this: these won't just be natural or man-made disasters, it will be known that they came from the hand of God himself. Amazingly, some of the best and most terrifying of these mystical visions have come out of Central and South America. But there have been others...

One of the plagues is called "The Three Days of Darkness" where not only will the sun not shine for three days, but demons will be let loose to kill, steel and destroy during that time of darkness. Catholics take that particular plague extremely seriously, you can find an assortment of YouTube videos about it.

"Now when the Lamb opened the seventh seal there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel holding a golden censer came and was stationed at the altar. A large amount of incense was given to him to offer up, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar that is before the throne. The smoke coming from the incense, along with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it on the earth, and there were crashes of thunder, roaring, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake."

- Revelation 8:1-5 NET

"In the dream the man told her not to worry that somehow the bowls would still be made and the mission of multiplying the wooden-light-bowls would still go forward. I don’t remember if that was because the saw would keep working or the bowls could be made without the saw."

One of the paradoxes of the coming plagues, is that the servants of God will have absolutely nothing to fear. As a matter of fact, just as it is in life, darkness has a way of making lights more visible. So it will be when the darkness comes: those who are God's servants will shine more brightly than ever. It also seems to indicate that somehow those videos are still going to be made and distributed during this time. The actual, electrical power going out may not be global, but localized. You might be still have access to power somehow, and you can keep making videos.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it."

- John 1:1-5 NET

"The kicker of the episode was that when she came to the church that morning and saw me she told her family with her “that is the man in my dream!”"

Yep, that dream was meant as an encouragement for YOU! It is God saying that you are doing the right thing by doing this YouTube thing you are doing. It's bearing much good fruit. So keep on doing it, even when the darkness really does come.

Well, that's my interpretation, which is pretty much what you have. Thought you might appreciate some confirmation. I don't claim my interpretation is 100% accurate, but it will give you a point of comparison.

Paul Vanderklay's avatar

Wow, very thorough. Thank you!

Sid Davis's avatar

It's hard not to see Paul KingsNorth's "machine" in the saw...

Pseudo Boethius's avatar

Yes it is. You make the mistake that too many people do, thinking that Paul Kingsnorth is raging against actual machines. He is not. The "machine" he's talking about is the liberal modernist democratic order here in the 21st century. Paul's sites are set on the evil of machine politics, not power tools.

Sam E's avatar

I don't have any 'answers' in the affirmative sense but the post made think of this scripture and the song in the link:

Jeremiah 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-JtAcpKtYQ&list=RDw-JtAcpKtYQ&start_radio=1