Bridging the Impasse of Atheist/Christian Conversation

Pursing the Procedural rather than the Propositional

In today's video I play with a new metaphor to try to foster better communication between people who believe in God and people who don't.

In late modernity much of the verbal conflict between those who identify as Christians and those who identify as non-Christians tended to focus on "belief in God". There are good reasons for that.

The Protestant Reformation drew lines between Christians through confessionality around propositional ascent. That first then framed inter-church debate.

In the 19th century when Darwin was seen as affording a non-theistic account of the origins of our world "atheism" basically became a Protestant confession or even a "church" of sorts, Part of my point in my God #1 and God #2 formulaton is that "God" but not a very organized one.

There were many attempts by confessional atheists from Comte to more contemporary "Sunday Assemblies" to form atheist "churches" but all have failed. This is something I think @vervaeke_john should ponder in his "religion that's not a religion" as a non-theist.

With the rise of the New Atheists and Youtube online video became a major front for propositionally oriented confessional combat around the proposition "God exists".

Part of my point in my God #1 and God #2 formulation is that "God" after Deism increasingly became both for many theists and atheists "a super-thing in the sky.” So they debated "does that superthing exist?"

"Does it answer prayer? Does it care about your moral performance? Does it reward your acts of piety?" This opened up for me listening to @jordanbpeterson debate @SamHarrisOrg .

For me the online "God exists/doesn't exist, prove me wrong" debate is spent. I think it still produces fruit in the lives of people, often those in trouble looking for rescue like in 12 step program but as a conversation starter it has limited evangelistic utility.

I also think the important work of @holland_tom in this book Dominion completely disrupts the confessionalism boundaries by demonstrating the degree to which our culture wars are really Christendom civil wars. https://pca.st/dljf8nbm

A way forward perhaps is not to look at modernistically through propositional confessionality but rather more procedurally (@vervaeke_john 4-p knowledge) with those who approach the world "living eyes up first" vs "living eyes down first".

Procedurally "believers" tend to look first to their God in the heavens as a place to begin framing their world and work down to earth from there. This was the dominant approach for humanity through most of human history.

There's a nice section this piece about this transition through a frame of "cultural capital" https://hedgehogreview.com/issues/distinctions-that-define-and-divide/articles/the-long-withdrawing-roar

In the 19th and 20th centuries procedural "Living eyes down first" took over the academy and the public sphere in the West.

Both strategies have their strengths and weaknesses. To continue to work @JonHaidt "elephant/rider" metaphor parades of elephants need as a group have some that start eyes up and some that start eyes down. Eyes up helps long term orientation.

If you're heading towards a mountain, eyes up first is vital. Then look down to not stumble against a rock or fall into a river. For 100 years publicly as a culture we've been eyes down, looking for obstacles but basically oriented from inherited Christian morality. @holland_tom

The meaning crisis as aptly named by @vervaeke_john and effectively addressed in the lives of many by @jordanbpeterson was a way of seeing how far we can look up while retaining the "living eyes down first" orientation.

Other scholars have been trying this as well. In many ways @JonHaidt was a precursor to @vervaeke_john and @jordanbpeterson with his book https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Hypothesis-Finding-Modern-Ancient-ebook/dp/B003E749TE

My Estuary network that I am building is in many ways a place where people "Living eyes up first" and "living eyes down first" can come together to compare notes. I hope to soon roll out the Estuary Protocol to give these groups more structure and a template to grow with.