Christianity is moving to the fringes and is picking up the culturally excluded, the left out and the ‘weirdos’. The Church is currently in the Cultural Underworld, preparing for Christ to bring Her back to life.
Paul I thoroughly enjoy and learn from your YouTube talks but will you please switch your format to refrain from constant ad interruptions? I listen while doing, and cannot constantly ‘skip ad’ — my hands are often in soapy dish water or messy from food prep. Thanks!
Yes to Christianity rewilding!
I was brought back to Christianity at Findhorn of all surprising places, and continue to explore with the help of such valuable sources as Cynthia Bourgeault, David Spangler, Jim Finley, Richard Rohr, Ilia Delio, Elaine Pagels, Buddhism, Mark Vernon, Rupert Sheldrake, Jordan Peterson, Peace Pilgrim, George Fox, John Vervaeke, Alice Bailey, Seth, Dorothy Day, Thich Nhat Hanh, Glenn Clark, Edgar Cayce, Jung, James Hillman, Jonathan Elias (Prayer Cycle), Shrek, Rudolf Steiner, Patrick Ophuls, anyone who speaks of separation and re-integration of opposites, etc etc etc.
As a person environmentally educated, it is perhaps no surprise that I would warn that we are heading into dark and different times. I think we all on some level know that. It is essential that anything connecting us all to greater meaning and purpose thrive. I was raised as an FGC Quaker and I still consider myself a Christian, although many within Christianity tell me I don’t qualify. No matter. That is where I’m planted, and with beautiful species and kingdom -intermingled roots. Any faith with love at its core is equally valuable and needed, and in my biased opinion is part of the grand movement toward what some Christians may label as the ‘universal Christ’ revealed ..
she is us. All of us. Every one of us. We are all needed and wanted.
Christianity is a spent force, based on an absurd lie Europeans were forced to believe when they were living under absolute monarchs. No surprise then that the Founding Fathers rejected the paraphernalia of monarchy and Christianity at the first opportunity. How much longer are Americans going to pretend that their religion is Christianity when they don't even believe in God, let alone the absurd blasphemy that God is the co-equal of an executed blasphemer? If God exists, Christians would be cursed for so many centuries of idolatry and blasphemy. Too bad then that they haven't even noticed that they are under a curse - which is surely evidence of atheism.
They are never concerned when informed that they could be guilty of idolatry. This is a feature shared by atheists who regard it to be just as stupid to worship one god that does not exist as to worship many gods that don't exist.
Clearly, they don't believe God exists to punish them for their idolatry and blasphemy in this life or the next, which is presumably why they share the atheistic traits of being cowardly, mentally ill and utterly unprincipled.
Why would atheists pretend to be idolaters and blasphemers? Presumably this pretense secures them admission to lifetime membership to being white and middle class, and that is enough for these low ambition atheists and nihilists, hypocrites and cowards.
The conversation between Mark Vernon and Rupert Sheldrake is weird. The admonition seems to be something like the following: don't consult texts, but look for experiences of the numinous in "external" forms: liturgy, worship, buildings, etc.
This is a high-brow version of consumerism. It's lent plausibility because the guy advocating for it is wearing a tweed jacket. What's stunning is that you will look in vain in the Bible for a positive account of the faith in these "external" terms. Rather the opposite: God despises this kind of attachment to pageantry; he wants a supplicant heart and a life lived in gratitude.
I am trying to understand why this message about an experience of a numinous presence in special places even qualifies as a serious discussion of the nature of religion. Sheldrake's analysis of the division of reality into a lifeless, mechanistic nature and a spiritual realm encompassing the soul, angels, and God is exactly on point. But psychedelics? Are you sh*tting me?
The text of Genesis 1 is right there for everyone to read. God creates everything; he divides up sky, land, and sea; he fills the different realms with sun, moon, and stars, plants, animals, birds, fish, and human beings. This is the world we presently live in, minus all the human artifacts that clutter up our lives. And look there at the end of the chapter: human beings are set apart from every other being in the heavens, on the earth, or under the earth by being created in the image of God. If you want to re-encounter God, go talk to a stranger. Re-enchanting the world is as simple and straightforward as loving God and your neighbour as yourself.
What is at the heart of Christianity?
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2)
I come away from a talk like this thinking these are wrinkly old professors who have spent too much time living in their own heads wandering through abstractions and up and down the abstract corridors of human history. They have not spent enough thinking about interpersonal relationships.
Against the backdrop of Easter, this is a council of despair.
Os Guinness makes the point that there is a conflict between two Revolutions--the Torah (through the English and American Revolutions) and the French Revolution. This is absolute nonsense. It's a poor framing of the ideas, not the least because it fails to contend with the fact that the French revolutionaries were inspired by the American revolutionaries.
Nietzsche understood that the French Revolution was a manifestation of the "slave morality" of the Hebrews in Exodus. Whatever you think of Nietzsche, he seems to have understood this better than Guinness.
The Dutch Revolt, the English Revolution, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution are all the products of a generically Calvinist idea of the right of rebellion against centralized monarchical power: the Dutch against the Spanish throne, the English against the Catholic monarchy, the Americans against the English monarchy, and the French against the French monarchy.
The French Revolution is an anomaly in this list, given that the Calvinist/Huguenot minority had already been driven out of France. But the idea that the French Revolution represents a wholly distinct "spirit" or set of ideas is wrong. It represents a selective reading of the historical evidence, a reading back into Western history of a present intellectual conviction.
Thomas Paine's has a very persuasive exegesis of the political significance of the Old Testament in his Common Sense. Let any ruler that attributes divine authority to their person or their office be overthrown. Thus the Dutch Revolt and the English, American, and French Revolutions: they are each in their own way rejections of the idea of the divine right of kings.
Hello from Susan, who shows up in Connecticut or Thunder Bay, wherever you alight. I would like to recommend a book, The Return of the God Hypothesis, by Stephen Meyer. He is a scientist who has been writing and speaking about the error in thinking science answers everything and excludes evidence for God. He has written about the problems with Darwinism as a total explanation for the existence of life, and now is writing about how far physics has diverged from a mechanical universe. He has written a closely reasoned, well researched book which concludes that the existence of God is a valid explanation that matches the observable scientific data better than the “scientific” explanations that rely on what Jonathan Pageau calls “magic” when the explanation starts to break down. If you are pushed for time, you can get the gist by listening to Peter Robinson interview Meyer on the Hoover Institute’s YouTube. Although he has avoided doing so before, Meyer states why he thinks a particularly Judeo-Christian God is the most logical. I am still waiting for the scientific world to catch up to Rupert Sheldrake, and Ian McGilchrist. Cheers! Susan Cassan
I am really enjoying the series of Exodus with Jordan and the Gang although this last installment #4 was a bit off topic and wandering with a fair dose of self aggrandizing by a couple of the participants.
At this pace no one will live long enough for Jordan Peterson to go through even a fraction of the Bible.
The Bible and it's insights are transcendent of place and time and I certainly hope that this doesn't degenerate into a modern commentary on politics which Greg seems to want to drag it into...
I’ve watched the Mark Vernon discussion previously and inspired me to write this: https://agloria.substack.com/p/rewilding-christianity
Christianity is moving to the fringes and is picking up the culturally excluded, the left out and the ‘weirdos’. The Church is currently in the Cultural Underworld, preparing for Christ to bring Her back to life.
Paul I thoroughly enjoy and learn from your YouTube talks but will you please switch your format to refrain from constant ad interruptions? I listen while doing, and cannot constantly ‘skip ad’ — my hands are often in soapy dish water or messy from food prep. Thanks!
Yes to Christianity rewilding!
I was brought back to Christianity at Findhorn of all surprising places, and continue to explore with the help of such valuable sources as Cynthia Bourgeault, David Spangler, Jim Finley, Richard Rohr, Ilia Delio, Elaine Pagels, Buddhism, Mark Vernon, Rupert Sheldrake, Jordan Peterson, Peace Pilgrim, George Fox, John Vervaeke, Alice Bailey, Seth, Dorothy Day, Thich Nhat Hanh, Glenn Clark, Edgar Cayce, Jung, James Hillman, Jonathan Elias (Prayer Cycle), Shrek, Rudolf Steiner, Patrick Ophuls, anyone who speaks of separation and re-integration of opposites, etc etc etc.
As a person environmentally educated, it is perhaps no surprise that I would warn that we are heading into dark and different times. I think we all on some level know that. It is essential that anything connecting us all to greater meaning and purpose thrive. I was raised as an FGC Quaker and I still consider myself a Christian, although many within Christianity tell me I don’t qualify. No matter. That is where I’m planted, and with beautiful species and kingdom -intermingled roots. Any faith with love at its core is equally valuable and needed, and in my biased opinion is part of the grand movement toward what some Christians may label as the ‘universal Christ’ revealed ..
she is us. All of us. Every one of us. We are all needed and wanted.
Call this a wondering: what about the church of the South? The future is some ways, African.
Christianity is a spent force, based on an absurd lie Europeans were forced to believe when they were living under absolute monarchs. No surprise then that the Founding Fathers rejected the paraphernalia of monarchy and Christianity at the first opportunity. How much longer are Americans going to pretend that their religion is Christianity when they don't even believe in God, let alone the absurd blasphemy that God is the co-equal of an executed blasphemer? If God exists, Christians would be cursed for so many centuries of idolatry and blasphemy. Too bad then that they haven't even noticed that they are under a curse - which is surely evidence of atheism.
They are never concerned when informed that they could be guilty of idolatry. This is a feature shared by atheists who regard it to be just as stupid to worship one god that does not exist as to worship many gods that don't exist.
Clearly, they don't believe God exists to punish them for their idolatry and blasphemy in this life or the next, which is presumably why they share the atheistic traits of being cowardly, mentally ill and utterly unprincipled.
Why would atheists pretend to be idolaters and blasphemers? Presumably this pretense secures them admission to lifetime membership to being white and middle class, and that is enough for these low ambition atheists and nihilists, hypocrites and cowards.
The conversation between Mark Vernon and Rupert Sheldrake is weird. The admonition seems to be something like the following: don't consult texts, but look for experiences of the numinous in "external" forms: liturgy, worship, buildings, etc.
This is a high-brow version of consumerism. It's lent plausibility because the guy advocating for it is wearing a tweed jacket. What's stunning is that you will look in vain in the Bible for a positive account of the faith in these "external" terms. Rather the opposite: God despises this kind of attachment to pageantry; he wants a supplicant heart and a life lived in gratitude.
I am trying to understand why this message about an experience of a numinous presence in special places even qualifies as a serious discussion of the nature of religion. Sheldrake's analysis of the division of reality into a lifeless, mechanistic nature and a spiritual realm encompassing the soul, angels, and God is exactly on point. But psychedelics? Are you sh*tting me?
The text of Genesis 1 is right there for everyone to read. God creates everything; he divides up sky, land, and sea; he fills the different realms with sun, moon, and stars, plants, animals, birds, fish, and human beings. This is the world we presently live in, minus all the human artifacts that clutter up our lives. And look there at the end of the chapter: human beings are set apart from every other being in the heavens, on the earth, or under the earth by being created in the image of God. If you want to re-encounter God, go talk to a stranger. Re-enchanting the world is as simple and straightforward as loving God and your neighbour as yourself.
What is at the heart of Christianity?
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2)
I come away from a talk like this thinking these are wrinkly old professors who have spent too much time living in their own heads wandering through abstractions and up and down the abstract corridors of human history. They have not spent enough thinking about interpersonal relationships.
Against the backdrop of Easter, this is a council of despair.
Os Guinness makes the point that there is a conflict between two Revolutions--the Torah (through the English and American Revolutions) and the French Revolution. This is absolute nonsense. It's a poor framing of the ideas, not the least because it fails to contend with the fact that the French revolutionaries were inspired by the American revolutionaries.
Nietzsche understood that the French Revolution was a manifestation of the "slave morality" of the Hebrews in Exodus. Whatever you think of Nietzsche, he seems to have understood this better than Guinness.
The Dutch Revolt, the English Revolution, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution are all the products of a generically Calvinist idea of the right of rebellion against centralized monarchical power: the Dutch against the Spanish throne, the English against the Catholic monarchy, the Americans against the English monarchy, and the French against the French monarchy.
The French Revolution is an anomaly in this list, given that the Calvinist/Huguenot minority had already been driven out of France. But the idea that the French Revolution represents a wholly distinct "spirit" or set of ideas is wrong. It represents a selective reading of the historical evidence, a reading back into Western history of a present intellectual conviction.
Thomas Paine's has a very persuasive exegesis of the political significance of the Old Testament in his Common Sense. Let any ruler that attributes divine authority to their person or their office be overthrown. Thus the Dutch Revolt and the English, American, and French Revolutions: they are each in their own way rejections of the idea of the divine right of kings.
Looking forward to Peterson's Exodus series with Paul Vanderklay here in Oregon.
Hello from Susan, who shows up in Connecticut or Thunder Bay, wherever you alight. I would like to recommend a book, The Return of the God Hypothesis, by Stephen Meyer. He is a scientist who has been writing and speaking about the error in thinking science answers everything and excludes evidence for God. He has written about the problems with Darwinism as a total explanation for the existence of life, and now is writing about how far physics has diverged from a mechanical universe. He has written a closely reasoned, well researched book which concludes that the existence of God is a valid explanation that matches the observable scientific data better than the “scientific” explanations that rely on what Jonathan Pageau calls “magic” when the explanation starts to break down. If you are pushed for time, you can get the gist by listening to Peter Robinson interview Meyer on the Hoover Institute’s YouTube. Although he has avoided doing so before, Meyer states why he thinks a particularly Judeo-Christian God is the most logical. I am still waiting for the scientific world to catch up to Rupert Sheldrake, and Ian McGilchrist. Cheers! Susan Cassan
I am really enjoying the series of Exodus with Jordan and the Gang although this last installment #4 was a bit off topic and wandering with a fair dose of self aggrandizing by a couple of the participants.
At this pace no one will live long enough for Jordan Peterson to go through even a fraction of the Bible.
The Bible and it's insights are transcendent of place and time and I certainly hope that this doesn't degenerate into a modern commentary on politics which Greg seems to want to drag it into...