Paul, I too am only 30 minutes into JBP/JV, and had started your commentary first but stopped when I saw you felt confused and bothered. I wanted to see the original for myself before seeing your take (which is what I usually do). As an aside, I'm a Star Trek fan who loved Enterprise on its first run because I stayed away from negative commentary that could influence me. I have a history with this, lol.
So only 30 minutes in, while Jordan's interruptions have been a bit bothersome, I have two observations.
1) There's a give and take between them that make this a far more casual conversation among *peers* than either one's usual MO. They speak the same language, easily, and have clearly had some conversations over the years to know how the other one reacts/overreacts/interracts. There are inside "jokes" and personal knowledge coming out that make this more of an eavesdropping than an interview. We are all flies on the YouTube wall with this.
2) As someone with ADHD for over fifty years, this begins to sound like what goes on in my monkey mind -- which is usually treated as a negative. In this case, though, it's as if each person is a side of the brain. John takes the part of the Left brain with reasoning, logic, details. Jordan takes the Right side, with intuition, imagination, creativity. Order and Chaos. The Center and the Edge. These interjections and interruptions are more normal to me as I THINK than as I speak or listen. And as Jordan has said many times, you have to speak in order to think. In the beginning, he's blurting out his speaking part as he tries to think with John's Left brain.
And they each actually know exactly what the other one is talking about, when we have no idea.
I'm really excited to see what all comes out of this as it spirals out into our little corners of the world.
Perfectly articulated... I have attempted to convey this to many people and usually it is done in my grumpy old man way and not well received. Something I have to work on I guess...😉
I would say you are the least grumpy man ive seen outside the Dalai Lama. One of the main reasons i watch your videos is that i aspire to mimic your obedience to Love Your Neighbor. I am too judgmental and am working on that. I think your presence is just right-i love listening/learning from you. BTW, i have returned to Christianity from long long detour into Buddhism. I had a conversion experience recently after watching the Pageau Peterson video that was so intimate and raw whereupon i began reflecting on the resurrection. The best word i can use is i was convicted by God, in all the meanings of the word. Hard to explain, but it definitely was done unto me. However, i wrestled with Scripture my entire life and never stopped reading the Bible. In fact, Buddhism helped me read it in a new fresh way. Anyway, long winded reply to say how mush i am learning/living your videos. I am also a Catechist in Catholic Church currently.
"We all belong to cults. The cult you cannot see is the one you belong to." - paraphrasing overseas journalist Michael Yon.
... Thank you, Paul. I think you mean you 'ARE' motivated to continue diving into this conversation. I appreciate now having your Substack to digest your thoughts along with gathering up snippets of your video commentary (although those are edifying immensely). I am about halfway through he JV/ JBP conversation and 30 min through your first commentary. Normally I try to listen to podcasts at 1.5x to get more information in but I had slow theirs down to 1x to even attempt to follow them. You framed the language that it seemed JBP was 'manic' or 'schizophrenic' in the lay sense of the terms and I found it annoying that he kept interrupting JV. As you asked- 'Is JBP alright?'. That question is still out there. Still, if JV (still a member of the Blue Church in good standing) thought he wasted his time or was offended by JBP, how come he consented to having the conversation released? (Or am I mistaken and JV is embarrassed to be party to this 'insane' conversation?) .... Fascinating. I continue finding meaning following you on this path online and in person. Regards, sir. I've got to get back to my day job.
James, I normally do the same thing with 1.75-2x speeds (so much content, so little time!). Foreign accents--even British!--require a slow-down. I don't know about you, but I find that I "hear" PVK and JBP as-if they're high-speed. So listening to Paul on his Friday Q&A's sounds like I'm listening through molasses. I teased him about that on YT. But I felt EXACTLY the same about this conversation. It was so frenetic and manic (as PVK described it), that I could only follow at 1x.
Thank you for acknowledging. ... I finally got to the end of the JBP/JV conversation and it did appear that JV valued and appreciated it. I know he follows PVK's video and commentary so that gives validation to this 'little corner of the Internet'. I look forward to the future JBP/ JV/ JP conversation especially as they have trust that predates JBP's status 'rocket ride' and his becoming a Girardian scapegoat. ... I appreciate PVK's sensitivity to JBP having his world turned upside down (no longer can be a conventional academic teaching, researching, having graduate students, being a clinical psychologist). I hope he continues to get through this and bless us with his presence.
Paul, I really like these written summaries. I don't always have time for the videos and
I appreciate the immediacy of being able to track with you on shared interests. Thanks!
There is a short 100pg read by Iris Murdoch titled, 'The Sovereignty of Good' which I see shining through Vervaeke w/ JBP (especially near the end).
I picked it up at Vervaeke's recommendation. I know you don't need MORE content to sift through, but I heartily recommend it for inisght into how Vervaeke's philosophy takes shape. Its also just a darn intriguing read that Ive enjoyed.
Paul thank you for pointing me to your substack... This sounds like the video that I've been waiting for you to do on this conversation so let's have a listen...
Paul, I too am only 30 minutes into JBP/JV, and had started your commentary first but stopped when I saw you felt confused and bothered. I wanted to see the original for myself before seeing your take (which is what I usually do). As an aside, I'm a Star Trek fan who loved Enterprise on its first run because I stayed away from negative commentary that could influence me. I have a history with this, lol.
So only 30 minutes in, while Jordan's interruptions have been a bit bothersome, I have two observations.
1) There's a give and take between them that make this a far more casual conversation among *peers* than either one's usual MO. They speak the same language, easily, and have clearly had some conversations over the years to know how the other one reacts/overreacts/interracts. There are inside "jokes" and personal knowledge coming out that make this more of an eavesdropping than an interview. We are all flies on the YouTube wall with this.
2) As someone with ADHD for over fifty years, this begins to sound like what goes on in my monkey mind -- which is usually treated as a negative. In this case, though, it's as if each person is a side of the brain. John takes the part of the Left brain with reasoning, logic, details. Jordan takes the Right side, with intuition, imagination, creativity. Order and Chaos. The Center and the Edge. These interjections and interruptions are more normal to me as I THINK than as I speak or listen. And as Jordan has said many times, you have to speak in order to think. In the beginning, he's blurting out his speaking part as he tries to think with John's Left brain.
And they each actually know exactly what the other one is talking about, when we have no idea.
I'm really excited to see what all comes out of this as it spirals out into our little corners of the world.
This conversation is fascinating.
Perfectly articulated... I have attempted to convey this to many people and usually it is done in my grumpy old man way and not well received. Something I have to work on I guess...😉
I would say you are the least grumpy man ive seen outside the Dalai Lama. One of the main reasons i watch your videos is that i aspire to mimic your obedience to Love Your Neighbor. I am too judgmental and am working on that. I think your presence is just right-i love listening/learning from you. BTW, i have returned to Christianity from long long detour into Buddhism. I had a conversion experience recently after watching the Pageau Peterson video that was so intimate and raw whereupon i began reflecting on the resurrection. The best word i can use is i was convicted by God, in all the meanings of the word. Hard to explain, but it definitely was done unto me. However, i wrestled with Scripture my entire life and never stopped reading the Bible. In fact, Buddhism helped me read it in a new fresh way. Anyway, long winded reply to say how mush i am learning/living your videos. I am also a Catechist in Catholic Church currently.
"We all belong to cults. The cult you cannot see is the one you belong to." - paraphrasing overseas journalist Michael Yon.
... Thank you, Paul. I think you mean you 'ARE' motivated to continue diving into this conversation. I appreciate now having your Substack to digest your thoughts along with gathering up snippets of your video commentary (although those are edifying immensely). I am about halfway through he JV/ JBP conversation and 30 min through your first commentary. Normally I try to listen to podcasts at 1.5x to get more information in but I had slow theirs down to 1x to even attempt to follow them. You framed the language that it seemed JBP was 'manic' or 'schizophrenic' in the lay sense of the terms and I found it annoying that he kept interrupting JV. As you asked- 'Is JBP alright?'. That question is still out there. Still, if JV (still a member of the Blue Church in good standing) thought he wasted his time or was offended by JBP, how come he consented to having the conversation released? (Or am I mistaken and JV is embarrassed to be party to this 'insane' conversation?) .... Fascinating. I continue finding meaning following you on this path online and in person. Regards, sir. I've got to get back to my day job.
James, I normally do the same thing with 1.75-2x speeds (so much content, so little time!). Foreign accents--even British!--require a slow-down. I don't know about you, but I find that I "hear" PVK and JBP as-if they're high-speed. So listening to Paul on his Friday Q&A's sounds like I'm listening through molasses. I teased him about that on YT. But I felt EXACTLY the same about this conversation. It was so frenetic and manic (as PVK described it), that I could only follow at 1x.
Thank you for acknowledging. ... I finally got to the end of the JBP/JV conversation and it did appear that JV valued and appreciated it. I know he follows PVK's video and commentary so that gives validation to this 'little corner of the Internet'. I look forward to the future JBP/ JV/ JP conversation especially as they have trust that predates JBP's status 'rocket ride' and his becoming a Girardian scapegoat. ... I appreciate PVK's sensitivity to JBP having his world turned upside down (no longer can be a conventional academic teaching, researching, having graduate students, being a clinical psychologist). I hope he continues to get through this and bless us with his presence.
Paul, I really like these written summaries. I don't always have time for the videos and
I appreciate the immediacy of being able to track with you on shared interests. Thanks!
There is a short 100pg read by Iris Murdoch titled, 'The Sovereignty of Good' which I see shining through Vervaeke w/ JBP (especially near the end).
I picked it up at Vervaeke's recommendation. I know you don't need MORE content to sift through, but I heartily recommend it for inisght into how Vervaeke's philosophy takes shape. Its also just a darn intriguing read that Ive enjoyed.
Karen had a conversation about it on the Meaning Code actually that Im gonna check out. https://youtu.be/V48TOzXpueQ
Love v. Truth: the Intersection of Iris Murdoch and Jordan Peterson on the concept of Good.
Paul thank you for pointing me to your substack... This sounds like the video that I've been waiting for you to do on this conversation so let's have a listen...